At last… More rock & talk from Propagandhi
Rockin’ in their own words
John Kendle



In its 16 years of existence, the Winnipeg-based, agit-prop/punk/rock trio Propagandhi has released just four albums — three studio records and a compilation of unreleased songs, alternative takes, outtakes, live tracks and candid silliness.

The band’s last studio production, Today’s Empires, Tomorrow’s Ashes, came out way back in 2000.

So when news arrived earlier this year that the trio of singer/guitarist Chris Hannah, bassist/singer Todd Kowalski and drummer Jord Samolesky was on the verge of finishing a new recording, a lot of the band’s fans and admirers pricked up their ears.

How would it sound? Would this vehemently humanist, anti-fascist, pro-feminist, pro-gay, anti-capitalist trio remain as vigilant and as angry as ever, loudly declaiming the assumptions and greed upon which capitalist society is based, while still rocking our sorry asses?

The answer is almost here. The band’s newest effort, Potemkin City Limits, is to be released simultaneously in Canada (on G7 Welcoming Committee Records) and the U.S. (on Fat Wreck Chords) on Oct. 18.

In anticipation of the release, Uptown asked Propagandhi to discuss the new album and the band. Kowalski sat down to an in-person interview at an Osborne Village coffee shop, while Hannah (who is calling himself Glen Lambert in the new album’s booklet and credits) answered questions via e-mail.

(Jord Samolesky’s epic drumming on Potemkin City Limits speaks for itself, by the way. He rocks.)

Because the guys in Propagandhi are so well spoken, informed and usually have a lot to say, we decided to present these interviews in question-and-answer format, without a filter, so to speak.
So here they are:

(And remember, Potemkin City Limits is available Oct. 18. You don’t have to take my word for it but, for what it’s worth, I think it’s the best thing the band has ever done.)

Interview with Glen Lambert of Propagandhi
“I’m not saying we’re geniuses but at least we try hard to pay attention.”

Uptown: I hadn’t realized it was five years between albums until I looked at Today’s Empires, Tomorrow’s Ashes recently. What took you guys so long?

Glen Lambert: For my part, I’m just not that interested in being in a band. I know many people who wake up in the morning and the first thing they think about is music, making music and being in a band. I don’t. I wake up in the morning and the first thing I think is: “not again.” 

It is possible this could account for our relative lack of output. 

U: Todd the Rod says the pressure he felt while making Potemkin City Limits had to do mostly with his performance and with the quality of his songwriting. Did you feel the same way? Why or why not?

GL: Yes, I too was concerned with the quality and performance of Todd’s songs. Haha. Just kidding. Kowalski is much more passionate about songwriting and musical progress than I am and that tends to pull us in new (and sometimes conflicted and frustrating) directions. I am but a simple banger from Portage, content with sounding like a more melodic, less metallic version of Soldiers of Misfortune-period Sacrifice. But Todd has way bigger visions than I do, and while I often felt like sticking dynamite in my eyes when subjected to the insane, counterintuitive process that is Todd’s songwriting, there is a payoff at the end of it I can’t argue with. 

U: I’ve heard from others you’ve worked with that you have boundless endurance for marathon sessions and that you pay attention to every sonic detail. How do you know when you’re done? Do you have to force yourself to step away sometimes?

GL: I wasn’t expecting any questions about my stallion-like sexual prowess, but yes, I usually know when I’m done and I do sometimes have to force myself to step away. 

U: The name ‘Potemkin’ resonates in a couple of different ways — as a symbol of revolt and mutiny and also as a metaphor for falsehood and deception. Please explain why you chose the title.

GL: The term ‘Potemkin village’ refers to something that is a facade, yes. It is based on the story of Grigori Potemkin and his efforts to impress Empress Catherine II by erecting false villages along the Volga during her tour of the Crimea. 

Potemkin City Limits means to suggest that perhaps we have arrived at a point in history where the deception has reached its extreme, most absurd conclusion. We are in what seems to be the terminal phase of terrestrial life, but continue to receive and accept messages that everything is OK. 

U: At a time when others — such as System of a Down, for example — attempt to be political within a mainstream, corporate framework, Propagandhi remains proudly and admirably uncompromising. In your literature (website, newsletters, blogs, etc.) the phrase ‘living in the margins of capitalist society’ comes up often. Is it even more important now, after 16 years of doing so, for Propagandhi to remain vigilant? Do you get a sense that more activist, progressive people are being drawn to the margins? Why or why not?

GL: Well, I should quickly point out first that we’re certainly not above compromise. Making measured, accountable, daily compromise is fundamental to living amongst other humans in any healthily diverse society. The problem is that in modern society, where power and wealth is so completely concentrated in the hands of the minority who benefit from the status quo, compromise is customarily a one-way street. Compromise is expected of people whose visions or desires or values conflict with the status quo. It is not expected of those whose visions or desires or values are congruent with the status quo.

So in regards to musicians who want to use the master’s tools to dismantle the master’s house (which is practically every musician), the real question is determining where compromises stop and outright collaboration begins. 

I imagine the answer to this question will eventually lead us to stop making records altogether. 

U: To look at the world today is to see the greed of globalization, destruction of the environment and political injustice everywhere, to name just a few general themes. Is it possible to be hopeful? How?

GL: I’m sure it is possible, but why bother? Hoping for change has never changed anything. I’m a big proponent of pessimism. People should be pessimistic about the likelihood of the prevailing order voluntarily surrendering its vast concentrations of wealth and decision-making power (which it currently employs in the destruction of the planet for profit) to the people. Every individual or organization that has ever done anything to tear an actual, tangible strip off of tyranny have done so because they’ve been pessimistic about the odds of tyrants changing their own behaviour. 

U: The song Speculative Fiction, in which a Canadian seems to say that his country will rise up against the States, is hilarious in many ways, but it could also be misconstrued, and probably will be, especially by Americans. Has it happened yet and how have you reacted (or how will you react when it does)?

GL: Those lyrics were built with the expectation that conclusions different from mine could and would be drawn from the text. Reactions from average Americans will be too predictable to be worth noting. It has been and will continue to be far more interesting to observe the reactions of average Canadian listeners. It is funny how easy it is for people to confuse vengeance for justice. And by funny, I of course mean totally horrifying. 

U: The singer/guitarist in Propagandhi has been credited by many names — Pete, Shit C. Face, and now Glen Lambert. The latest Wikipedia entry for the band admits confusion over who Glen Lambert is and who the Portage Terriers are. I know the Terriers are a junior hockey team — but why “Glen Lambert”?

GL: It is the small things in life that stop me from choking myself to death with my own hands. This is a small thing. 

U: The photo of Glen with an air pistol and a rifle on his bed could send a mixed message to some. What was the intent of including that picture in the CD booklet?

GL: Those are a Buckmark .22 calibre target pistol and a Remington 12-gauge shotgun, respectively. 

I think the message is clear: eat right, get plenty of exercise, stay away from drugs and alcohol and everything will be OK. I learned this from HR of Bad Brains. He called it a Positive Mental Attitude. And look at him! Mentally fit as a fiddle!

U: Any chance of a Winnipeg show or shows in the future?

GL: I’m afraid so.

Uptown: So which of the songs on the album are yours?

Todd Kowalski: Cut into the Earth, Bringer of Greater Things, Impending Halfhead, Life at Disconnect and Superbowl Patriot. On Empires I did four, and two of them stunk (laughs).

U: In your message in the CD booklet you mention that there was a song on the Rwandan Genocide that you just couldn’t finish because it just didn’t work, so I wonder if there are other songs or parts of songs that got left behind when you were making the record?

TK: On this one, Hannah had two songs that didn’t quite get finished as well. On one we actually recorded bass, guitar and drums and the vocals never got finished. But they might veer off or branch off. The one about Rwanda, I’ll probably take it all apart, keep the riffs and just, lyrically, go somewhere else now.

U: Do you write all the time?

TK: I do, yeah, but it’s generally pretty shitty. What’s on the CDs represents the best of the best of what I can do.

U: It’s been five years since the last album. There were shows up until 2003 and then it looks like you got into album-production mode — but what happens over five years? Do you get together to jam regularly?

TK: Yeah, three times a week. We never stopped. We finished touring and just kept going. It seems like we take breaks or something, but maybe we’re just slow. There’s one drum part in Speculative Fiction that I swear we did for, like, 20 days in a row and then ended up going right back to the first thing we ever did. We just want it to be good, and if something doesn’t seem right, it just isn’t right.

U: When did actual recording start?

TK: November of last year. We did the drums in Vancouver, and that all went really good. We came home stoked and we started doing bass and guitar, and I wasn’t liking my bass sound and I just couldn’t solve my problem. Then Chris lost his voice and everything just seemed to be going lifeless in our playing and our recording.

We hit maximum depression time right before Christmas, and I came back and I thought I’d done my vocals and then Chris and Jord thought I should try again and I was like, “Fuck, I thought I did my best.” But they pushed me and I did a much better job — I ended up putting much more life into them.

The whole thing just took a while. Chris redid his guitar, for example, and I re-amped my bass, and we were still finishing writing right up to the last day. But as it started getting closer to sounding like we wanted it to sound, our spirits began to soar. Then we ended up mixing it several times. A couple of times here, until we went to the Blasting Room in Colorado with the guys from the Descendents. We went there and said, “Right, this is it,” and we ended up having a good time there and they did a real good job. It was nice that they were stoked on it. Bill Stevenson said it sounded like a punk Voivod, which was just great to hear because we all love Voivod.

U: Have you listened to Today’s Empires, Tomorrow’s Ashes lately?

TK: I hadn’t listened to it for three years, purposely, so I could hear it fresh. So when I heard it again I thought, ‘Fuck, this is pretty good,’ especially for the first six songs or so. But I think this is completely better… I know my songs are better.

U: Are you guys constantly pushing each other?

TK: Oh yeah. I think I would have been satisfied with being a lot shittier without those two guys. When I first started jamming with them, what they expected in terms of timing and playing was so beyond what I was used to that I thought, ‘I can’t do this.’ Sometimes I still think I can’t keep up with what they’re expecting, but then I realize that what they’re expecting isn’t all that much (laughs). As we get better and look back I realize that those old songs were actually pretty easy, when at the time they seemed like impossibilities to me.

U: Do you still feel like ‘the new guy’ sometimes?
TK: Not the new guy, no, but I still want Propagandhi to be what I was a fan of… and to me that means more of Hannah’s songs, because I’m still the guy that wants to hear Propagandhi songs. I think I might add variation and enthusiasm and heaviness, and I try to hear the ultimate Propagandhi song and push those guys towards it. In the end I just want to hear a good Propagandhi record.

U: (I ask a long, involved question which basically proves I have my head up my ass. What it boils down to is…) Where do the songs come from?

TK: Well, for me, I would read a whole shitload of books and see what’s all around. Throughout my notebooks there’s scattered pieces of lyrics. It’s not to try to consolidate them into a bunch of songs so much as it is to get the main gist of the main things that are running through my head. It doesn’t seem like it, reading five songs, but each line represents about a week of writing consistently on every page of my book. It seems like one idea, but every line was thought about for so long that it seems like a million ideas to me, which sounds idiotic, maybe, but is true.

U: Is it almost more important for you guys to be Propagandhi now than it was five years ago, or nine years go, or whatever?

TK: When I first heard them, I was a guy from Regina without too many great ideas, so it was important to me to hear songs like (Homophobes Are Just Mad Cuz They Can’t Get Laid). Perhaps Propagandhi laid a seed for people, so that when things like 9/11 happened it wasn’t such a shock for them. So it was important for Propagandhi to happen when they did. But there are also a lot of people who have jumped on board the ship but haven’t really been thinking about it — like ‘We gotta Bush out of here and get Kerry in office and then everything’ll be better.’

In that instance, the angle of Propagandhi has turned just a bit to counter the ship-jumping thing… It’s maybe important for us to say, to point out, to those people — and some of them are our friends— ‘I don’t think you understand what you’re talking about.’ I’m not saying we’re geniuses but at least we try hard to pay attention.

U: Do you think it’s your job? To pay attention?

TK: I do, for sure. Especially if I have to talk to people and not be a total asswipe when I see the paper.

U: To me the message seems to be ‘open your eyes, see what’s around, educate yourself’…

TK: Yes, and pay attention to what’s going on in your areas because there’s so much.

U: Has there every been any discussion of moderating your message or the way in which you do your business in order to reach more people?

TK: Everyone always tries to mainstream everything, so in the end it’s all just mainstream. These ideas have to exist somewhere, but you don’t have to toe the exact line all the time. When everyone starts doing Punk Voter, they’re just making things mainstream and uninteresting. Is it the role of a punk band, especially, to not be offensive and to make sure everyone’s happy and to not say anything dumb or annoying?